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Do any of you still self-host email? I am losing my mind

General Discussion by mediaaustin 30 replies 1.8K views
#1

I have been running my own mail infra since 2019 and I am officially done

For what it's worth, I have SPF flattened to 10 lookups, DKIM rotated every 90 days, DMARC at p=reject with rua to a self-hosted parser, custom rDNS, warmed IPs on a /24 I lease from a regional ISP. My Postfix config is 400 lines of battle-tested restrictions. I have read RFC 5321 for fun.

And STILL. Still. Microsoft puts me in the spam folder for half my personal correspondance. Gmail throttled me last month because "low reputation" on an IP that sends maybe 200 legit messages a day. I am on zero blocklists. Zero. I check daily. My TLS is 1.3 only, my MTA-STS is enforced, my BIMI svg is pixel-perfect.

The worst part is the black box. There is no appeal. There is no support ticket that gets answered by a human. You just... guess. Add another authentication method they invented yesterday. Pray.

I used

SPF, DKIM, DMARC — holy trinity ✉️
#2

As far as I know, the centralisation of email infrastructure is not only a technical problem but also a significant privacy concern. When you route your personal correspondence through a third-party provider, you create a data relationship that falls under jurisdictions you may not control. I attempted self-hosting from 2021 to 2024. My setup was on a dedicated server in a german datacenter, with full disk encryption and mail stored only on my own hardware. The GDPR compliance was straightforward because I was the data controller. However, the deliverability issues you describe are familiar. Microsoft in particular uses opaque reputation systems that seem to penalise small operators regardless of technical correctness. To be precise, I eventually migrated to a small european email cooperative. They run the infrastructure, I retain contractual control over data processing

Neuland. Aber schnell.
1 #3

WARNINGS about those "email cooperatives".

What could go wrong:

  • They log metadata you never see
  • Their fail2ban is probably misconfigured or missing
  • Shared infrastructure means shared reputation, one spammer and YOUR domain gets burned
  • TLS termination at their edge means plaintext inside their network!
  • Backups you do not control, stored who knows where

I self-host on a KVM VPS at OVHcloud, 2GB RAM, old Xeon E5. iptables + fail2ban + crowsec. My logs show 4000+ brute force attempts per week on port 25 alone. You think a cooperative is watching that closely?

I rotate my keys weekly. RDNS through my own /29. If gmail drops me I do not care, I tell people to check spam or use signal.

The black box is the FEATURE. It filters out people too lazy to whitelist you.

airgapped, encrypted, faraday'd, still worried
#4

1. Deliverability is not a solved problem for small operators, and the major providers have no incentive to solve it.

2. Practical data from my current role: we migrated a 50-user organisation from self-hosted (Postfix 3.7, Dovecot 2.3, Debian 11) to a managed provider in Q3 2024. Support ticket volume for "my email went to spam" dropped from 12/month to zero. Cost increased from $35/month (VPS + IP lease + my time) to $47/month flat.

3. The self-hosted stack was technically correct: rDNS matching, SPF -all, DKIM 2048-bit, DMARC p=reject, TLS 1.3, valid DANE. The managed provider uses identical standards. The difference is relationships and volume reputation pooling.

4. If you continue self-hosting, I recommend: dedicated IPv4 from your host (not shared), registered at contabo.com or similar with explicit email policy, and automated reputation monitoring via senderscore.org

It's always DNS. Always.
#5

Why pay for email when you can self-host it

docker compose up and you are running mailcow or stalwart in ten minutes. Reverse proxy with traefik, acme for certs, done. I have been doing this since 2020 on a 4GB Ryzen VPS at Hetzner, Geekbench 6 single around 2200, disk hits 1400 MB/s. Cost me six dollars monthly and I run mail plus web plus xmpp plus my git.

The trick is rDNS through Hostinger, they actually let you set it yourself in their panel. Most hosts make you open a ticket and wait three days. With proper rDNS my deliverability to gmail is 95% plus, microsoft maybe 80% but I do not know many people on outlook anyway.

You are all giving up too easy. The SaaS providers want you to think it is hard so you pay them. Self-hosting is freedom. docker compose and a weekend of reading.

my cloud. my rules. my 3AM alerts.
#6

I try make a server up with mailcow last year, was very difficult for me 😊

My english is not so good for technical things, I follow tutorial but SPF make me crazy, I forget the dot and nothing work. Three days to find this.

Now I pay 3 dollar to GreenCloudVPS for email. Is working. My domain is mine, they just do the mail. I have time for other projects, make a server up for game or something.

Regards

siesta first, deploy later
#7

You compiled it yourself. You patched buffer overflows on a friday night while users screamed. That was normal. Kids these days think docker compose is an achievement.

Mark my words: the major providers have won. They wanted email to be a walled garden, and it is one now. Your perfect SPF record does not matter. Your 2048-bit DKIM does not matter. What matters is whether you send enough volume to register on their radar as "probably not a spammer." a personal server sending 200 messages a day is invisible, and invisible means suspicious.

20 years in this business. I self-hosted until 2022. Now I forward everything to a paid account and pull via imap. Not because I cannot run the server. Because I am tired of being the only person in the world who cares whether my mail arrives.

In five years, self-hosted

IPv4, IRC, and irssi — fight me
1 #8
mediaaustin said:
The worst part is the black box. There is no appeal. There is no support ticket that gets answered by a human.

The ticket said "our user reports receiving unsolicited commercial email from your IP 203.0.113.47"

The body of the reported "spam" was a dinner invitation. From a husband to his wife. Both addresses on the same domain. The "commercial" aspect was apparently that he mentioned buying wine.

I worked abuse at a mid-size host for four years. The amount of user error parading as policy violation would astonish you. We once suspended a customer because gmail bulk-foldered their newsletter, and the newsletter recipient opened an abuse ticket with us instead of clicking "not spam."

The major providers do not communicate with small hosts. There is no escalation path. You are not a partner, you are a noise source. If you self-host, you are an especially quiet noise source, which is worse.

Dry humor: at least with Contabo you know the IP was probably used for actual spam by twelve previous te

reported. resolved. repeat.
#9

Microsoft putting dinner invites in spam is bleak

oops: 0000 [#1] SMP
#10

Which Xeon E5, v2 or v3

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